Evil Dead - Bob Rangel

Undoubtely Evil Dead released in the form of "Annihilation of Civilization" a thrash classic. Unfortunately the record came out a little too late, since in 1989 thrash metal started going out of the fashion. In this interview Bob Rangel, who wrote some lyrics for the album, speaks about the band and about the record.

Bob, do you still remember how did you turn into metal and how did you became a metal fan? What was so captivating, intersting in this music for you?Okay, well I remember always liking whatever my older brothers liked. And luckily my oldest brother discovered KISS and Black Sabbath. So I always just leaned towards that kinda stuff. I expanded my interests as I got older, but starting out it was all Heavy Metal. Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and eventually Slayer and much heavier stuff like that.
Did you consider yourself an underground fan or were you rather into established bands?Well at first I just listened to established bands, stuff that I could hear on the radio. But later on I got into a lot of underground stuff. I remember discovering Kerrang! Magazine at this record store and getting a bunch of fanzines back in the day. For those of you who weren’t born yet! That is kinda like a online magazine, but people used to type them up on their own, and just Xerox copy them. They were totally cool cuz you could read interviews with Mercyful Fate, and Exciter, and Armored Saint, and Slayer back before they were big. You could learn about bands from other parts of the country that hadn’t made it to your area yet.
Growing up in L. A. how did you view the scene popping up with bands, such as Slayer, Abattoir, Savage Grace, Sceptre, Vermin etc.? Were they the forerunners of the thrash movement?It’s weird because there were so many rally good bands at that time, but the only ones that you would hear about were the hair bands, the glam bands. The ones who had enough money to pay to play the big clubs. They bought ads in local magazines like BAM, and Music Connection. The good thrash metal bands had to make their own flyers and play back yard parties. But once bands started to play and get a reputation then they couldn’t keep them out of the clubs. Back then the first place that really started letting good thrash bands play was the Country Club which is way out in Reseda in the San Fernando Valley. About an hour away from East LA.
How about the club scene and the clubs as a whole? Did you often go to the clubs to watch bands?Yeah I used to go see bands a lot. Like I said at first you had to drive all the way out the Valley to see Thrash bands. I saw Slayer out there a bunch of times. Dark Angel, Mercyful Fate. There was also the Olympic Auditorium in Downtown LA but that was mostly for Punk Rock shows. I think Anthrax played there one time. G.B.H. and Suicidal Tendencies used to play there. The clubs were only concerned woth making money. They would have booked Adolf Hitler if he had a band. So until the thrash bands got a little bit bigger they didn’t really welcome them.
At which point and how did you end up becoming the roadie of Rob Alaniz (Evil Dead)? By the way, have you ever played an instrument? Yeah I play bass. I played in a few bands with Rob. My first band was Vomitron in 1987. That was like a side project for Rob while he was in Evil Dead. We used to practice at the same place. Rob was in a band with my brother Steve, it was called Virgin Faith. They were like a Heavy Metal cover band at first but then they started writing their own songs. Anyway, My brother and Rob were in a thrash cover band too called The N.O.T. Squad and I used to just be at every gig so I started helping out. Drums take the most time to set up you know, there are so many parts to them, so I guess I just used to help Rob and I got to know his whole kit and how he liked to set it up and all. Plus me and Rob became good friends because we both have the same sick sense of humor. Plus we are both named Robert! We used to call ourselves the “Bobs of Death”
Do you often take part in Evildead’s rehearsals? If yes, can you tell us more about it?Well I used to hang out with Rob all the time. He was in a band called Necrophilia just before Evil Dead and I used to go to practice with them and roadie for them too. Then when he started working with Mel and Juan I used to hang out all the time. Then Rob brought in Albert. Then whenever Albert and Rob and I were there, before anybody else, we would sometimes work on songs and parts and stuff. Eventually that led to me writing some of the lyrics. Then eventually that led to us starting Rise, the band Rob and Albert were in after Evil Dead.
On April 11, 1987 Evil Dead its first ever live show in front of about 2500 crazed thrashers at Fender’s Ballroom, in Long Beach on a bill with Possessed, Dark Angel and Cryptic Slaughter what do you recall of this particular gig?That was a killer show! I remember when they first got booked on that bill, I was thinking “Fuck Yeah! Finally a really great bill and a great chance to show off the new songs they had been working on. But when we got there, man it was packed! I couldn’t believe it. I remember setting up Rob’s drums and looking out at all those crazy fuckers. Man! I mean, Fenders was a crazy place. The roof was really low and people would hang on the rafters and shit, it got so hot and sweaty in there. It was like, a dream gig, especially for a brand new band, but if they didn’t kick major ass right from the get go, the crowd would have eaten them up! They would have thrown them off the stage and probably kicked their asses! The crowd was pretty violent. They opened with The Awakening of course and I remember looking at the crowd when they got to the half time part in the middle and people just dug it! They were thrashing, and stage diving and there were so many pits just spinning around in the audience. Aw man it was awesome. A great first gig, a great way to introduce themselves to LA.
Evildead released their first full length titled „Annihilation of civilization” in 1989 and although the title speaks for itself, but how would you comment it with your own words?Well I think it is a great album. I mean I love it! I loved it back then. It is heavy and it has all the different styles that made up that band. There are some great songs on it “Gone Shooting” and “Parracide” are great. “Holy Trials” is awesome. The title track of course, I really like that one! But to tell you the truth by the time it actually came out in 1989, it felt a little old. I mean, they had gone thru so much bullshit with the record label, and it took so long to finish it, that by the time it was released, they had like, 10 or 11 new songs that were really good and that should have been their 2nd record. “Annihilation” should have come out in 1988 and their 2nd record should have come out in 1989. But anyway, you know, that was all in the past. I was really close to Rob and Albert, and I so I was frustrated with all the difficulties they had with the record label and finally getting the album out. But overall, looking back on it, it is a great fucking record. It is a good representation of their sound, and I think it stands up even now 20 years later!
Rob told me, that you co-wrote some lyrics, how did it happen?Well I think that Mel wrote lyrics, you know he was the first singer in Evil Dead. I liked the stuff that Mel wrote. He wrote “The Awakening” and “Parracide” and “Holy Trials”. But when they got Phil to sing, he didn’t really write words. He would sing whatever Mel wrote, and he was a good singer but he didn’t care what he sang. So anyways, I would never have just stuck my nose in where it didn’t belong, but like I said, Albert and Me, and Rob used to work on songs, sometimes I would just start yelling stuff in the microphone, just to help flesh out the song. I don’t remember exactly who suggested that I write some lyrics for Evil Dead, but I remember I jumped on the chance because I love writing words, and I was a little pissed off motherfucker with a lot to say! I think that Mel had heard some songs from Vomitron, mine and Robs little side band and I think he liked them, or at least he realized that I could put words together. So anyway, somehow someone just said “Hey, let’s have Bob do it!” and it just grew from there. I mean it sucks that there are only 2 songs on the record that I wrote on, because after that I started to write all the lyrics and it was fun! I think I wrote like 5 or 6 sets of words for them that they never recorded or anything cuz Rob and Albert quit.
What kind of topics did have an effect on you?Well you have to remember that this was in the late 80’s, so this was at the end of the Reagan years, and then the build up to the first Gulf War. Plus the fall of the Soviet Union, and so on. There was plenty of crazy shit going on with the United Sates Government and that gave me endless material. Then there is always local stuff to write about. There was some racist LAPD shit always going on too. But one of my favorite topics will always be the Catholic Church. They had child molesting priests, Televangelists, donations to non-profit organizations etc. I mean I could just write about them for the rest of my life and never run out of material!
Do you think, that Evildead tried to avoid being clichy lyricswise, but they wanted draw the attention to political, human and social issues and problems?
Well I definitely tried that. I mean I think that I always liked the kind of lyrics that expressed a feeling or something. I mean I liked Slayer and Testament, and Dark Angel and all that, but all the devil stuff was kinda boring to me. A was always more drawn to the lyrics of punk rock bands like The Minute Men and Suicidal Tendencies and Dead Kennedys. I liked pissed off stuff, angry at the world type of stuff. I’m not sure what Mel wanted to say with his lyrics. He was really good at writing about moods and imagery. Like with “The Awakening”, he saw the movie Evil Dead and just told that story with words. He painted a picture and caught the mood of the movie. I couldn’t really do that. I just wanted to yell and shake my fist at something thru my words.
This album is full of sweet riffs, great solos, and well written lyrics, the guitar playing rules and from start to end the kick ass factor doesnt go down, how do you view it?Yeah it’s great. They had a lot of time to work on it, and I remember how many times they re-recorded stuff and rearranged stuff just to get it perfect, or as good as they could. It came out really good.
The speed increases as the album keeps spinning it seems until the final track „B.O.H.I.C.A (BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN)” which is the fastest most intense track, is that correct?
“BOHICA” is pretty much out of control. I guess that it is good that it is the last song because I don’t know what they could have put after that. And “Unauthorized” is pretty crazy too. It starts out pretty fast too with “The Awakeing”
Do you agree with, that all the tracks on this album are brilliant; Albert Gonzalez and Juan Garcia can really shred up a guitar?Um, let me see…. All the songs are great. Let me think about it, Yeah I guess each song is pretty good. I can’t think of a band one. They all came out really good. Albert is fucking incredible on guitar. I was always in awe of his playing. He was ridiculous. I am really glad that they captured his playing and his solos on there. Juan is a really good player too, he writes great riffs. He has written so many songs over the years with Agent Steel and Evil Dead. I always dug his riffs. Him and Albert aren’t exactly the same type of players and I think it was a little rough at first, but they came together very nicely. All the songs they wrote after that, the ones that never really saw the light of day, those were some killer songs too. It’s a shame you never got to hear those.
Some of the solos are just throw to make the song sound better but some of them are truly intense like on B.O.H.I.C.A., on „The awakening” or on „Future shock”…Well the solo at the end of “BOHICA” is actually Casey the guy that produced the record. I remember that was the last song they recorded and they had become such good friends they just invited him to play guitar on it. I remember Albert used to put a lot of thought into his solos. He always considered everything, the tempo of the song, the feel, the mood. Albert comes from like, blues, and jazz shit. He never even heard thrash metal, or speed metal guitar players before hi joined. The stuff he listened to was like, Eric Johnson, and Wes Montgomery, and Miles Davis. He brought that mentality to his playing.
While this record came out by the ending of the US thrash glut, meaning it was hard to differentiate which band was which by that time, but somehow Evildead stood out, what do you think about it?I think it came out too late, as I said earlier. I do think that they didn’t sound like other bands. Even though it came out late in the thrash scene, I think it had a fresh feel to it. They definitely had a sound of their own. All the bay area bands kinda sounded similar, and there were a lot of hard core noise bands coming out at the time too. But Evil Dead managed to keep their sound. They could have made it really big I think and they would have had their own sound.
Was maybe the fact that you were faster and more vicious than the legions of Bay Area bands clogging the arteries of the scene or maybe it was the fact your guitarists knew how to shred riffs and leads equally well?Well they did sound different that the bay area bands. I mean there were some great bands around at that time. Vio-Lence, Death, Carcass, Testament, Exodus, Death Angel, Holy Terror, etc. I think Juan has a sound of his own. His style is all over the Evil Dead sound. Then when you throw Albert in there, he just takes it to another level.
Those boys were damn good and the guitar attacks of Garcia and Gonzalez work extremely well together, right?I think they came out really good especially on the record. There are few tracks where Juan plays a solo, then Albert plays one, or they exchange stuff like on the beginning of “Parracide” or in “Gone Shooting” There are some great dual sounding stuff. I mean I can totally tell which one is Albert and which one is Juan. They have their own sounds.
Juan Garcia knows how to write riffs and he shows it on this album…Definitely! Juan is a riff monster. I was a total fan of Agent Steel form their first couple records. He wrote some killer stuff with Evil Dead too. He is a metal pioneer! An LA metal legend!
How did you view Rob’s drumwork, since you were his roadie? Did he do a phenomenal job?Rob is a fucking monster. When I think of how many years he has been playing. I mean back in the day, he had a reputation for breaking stuff. I mean all his cymbals were broken. He would break drumsticks like they were glass. He plays so fucking hard, which I love! I love how aggressive he plays. He is really creative too, and can sound like a freaking avalanche sometimes. Thru the years he has gotten so much better too. I mean he used to tell me that he broke so many cymbals because he didn’t know how to play right! The he didn’t hit them right. Anyway he knows now, and he is really good, and he hasn’t lost his anger behind the kit. He still beats the shit out those drums! I hadn’t seen him for a few years, and I went to see him with Winterthrall a few years ago, and man! He is still a really intense player.
His drumming is fantastic, tight, furious, and keeping the band-machine on overdrive most of the album, he is on the same level of Gene Hoglan or Dave Lombardo…I think he is up there. Gene Hoglan used to dig Rob’s playing back in the day too. He used to hang around. He was a fan. I think there weren’t that many really good drummers for this type of music. I mean when you think about Slayer, whenever Dave Lombardo would leave they would never sound as good. A lot of dudes could play fast, but the aggression and the feeling wasn’t there. The fills weren’t as creative.
Wasn’t a disadvantage for Rob, that we wasn’t as experienced as the other members were in Agent Steel, Abattoir etc.?Well Mel and Juan had already experienced some measure of success in those other bands. But Rob had been playing for years. I know more than anyone because I was there helping out! At every ghetto backyard party, and tiny club. He played around Los Angeles for years before Evil Dead. Maybe recording, and playing out of state and stuff, that was new to him, but he fit right in. I mean it was all new to him and it was fun.
Phil Flores’ high-pitched snarl was limited and best suited to high-speed spitting out of lyrics more than anything else, do you think, that he was highly influenced by the hardcore scene?Phil was weird. Totally cool guy, very laid back, almost a surfer type. I don’t know if he liked Hard Core stuff or not. He didn’t seem to be really angry or anything like that, which is what I usually associate with Hard Core. I mean, he yelled, and screamed pretty good. He sounded good on the songs. But he was never really involved with the songs or the words. At first Mel was writing all the stuff and Phil would just sing it. Then I was writing lyrics and he would just sing whatever we gave him. He was good, but a little hard to read.
As I mentioned above, the guitar tandem of Juan Garcia and Albert Gonzalez are top notch, whipping out wailing solos alongside stunning riffs at those velocities, Mel Sanchez even gets in some licks here and there with a growling distorted bass tone, what’s your opinion about it?Yeah they had a cool sound. I love the way Mel’s bass sounds and he plays some cool shit. Albert pretty much defined the Evildead sound. His style is insane and so out of place in a thrash metal band. But he managed to bring a fresh style to this music. Juan is great too, I mean he writes some amazing riffs. Together they had a great sound, it’s a shame they all 3 didn’t get to record more songs.
Was upon the release of „Annihilation Of Civilization” Evildead’s sound notably more fresh than that of most other bands of the time?Well they definitely had a unique sound. Way different than other bands from that era. But like I said, by the time the album came out, more than a year late, well things had changed. I think Mel had left the band by that time, then Rob and Albert. I wish you could have heard the stuff that they were writing after they had recorded “Annihilation”. Not the stuff that came out on “The Underworld”. This was a lot heavier and intense. Really aggressive pissed off stuff. Me and Rob and Albert made a band called Rise and we were doing all those songs. I left that band, then they eventually got that guy Istvan and then they both left and he is still in that band. But that is the stuff that should have been the second Evildead album.
There is simply no fluff or flashy gimmicks in these songs, and the vocals have a slight hardcore-ish edge which adds to the concise feel of the music, correct?
Yeah they didn’t really do anything fake or phony. I think the hard core thing you hear with the vocals was probably because it is clear and you can understand the lyrics, which is good. A lot of bands had gotten way into the cookie monster singer thing by that time. But they kept the heavy aggressive music with a clear angry hard core sounding singer.
Do you agree with, that the strength of „Annihilation of Civilization” and what makes it stand above their other releases, lies in the guitar riffs done by Albert Gonzales and Juan Garcia and songs such as „F.C.I./The Awakening”, „Living Good”, „Future Shock” and „Annihilation of Civilization” showcase fast, brutal and, dark guitar riffs?Definitely! Albert’s playing, Rob’s monster drums, Mel’s sound, Juan’s riffing, Phil’s voice, they all came together to create a really cool sound. Too bad that band didn’t get to record anymore records together.
As far as the opening track „F.C.I./The awakening” is very similar to Slayer’s „Angel of death”, considering its aggression, brutality and intensity, one of the best openers and thrash songs of all time…Yeah that is a killer riff. Albert came up with that and the leads. You know what the F.C.I. stands for? Well I think it was the first time Albert played those riffs and Mel, or Phil, someone said that it sounds like flying cats! The lead guitar parts, so they called it the “Flying Cat Intro”. A little bit of trivia for you!
„The Awakening”, kicks things off in furious fashion, pelting the listened with adrenaline fueled riffs, supplied by Juan Garcia, the title track kicks in next, a solid mosh inducing track and sounding also like a cleaner Slayer, with a higher degree of technicality, and a decidedly hardcore-style vocal delivery, what do you think about it?
I remember I didn’t think it was a good idea to put the title track as the second song. The Intro and the Awakening are killer to open the record of course. But I thought they should have put “Annihilation” later in the mix. But now, when I listen back I think it sounds good. I like the order. It does kick you right in the teeth from the get go!
„Living Good” is fast, technical and with a midpaced break to die for (an awesome mosh break), a prime example of what Evildead can do, correct?Yes! That is a great example of all the styles they brought together. Really heavy riff with a good groove too. I really like the lyrics on that one too. “Adultress bisexual, not one time but several” that is fucking awesome writing Mel! And the part that goes “If you’re truly chosen then hell must be frozen” That is some good shit right there! Mel had a very cynical outlook on stuff. That song was about Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. These 2 twisted religious yahoos who stole millions from little old ladies in the mid west. Eventually they got exposed as 2 faced, perverted, thieves, and rapists. They got what they deserved. Good Song!
Would you say, that the rest of the record rips along, with varying success, the best being „Gone Shooting” and the awesome „Holy Trials” and varying production, as some of the songs sound flat and quickly thrown together („Unauthorized Exploitation”, and the admittedly hilarious „B.O.H.I.C.A”)?Well “Unauthorized” should have been a great song. I remember when they wrote that riff. I think Albert wrote it, and it sounded really quick and punk rock like, but I think Mel and Juan didn’t like the way it sounded so they slowed it down and changed it. That song was a little thrown together, you pretty much nailed it on that. But the lyrics are great too! Another Mel Sanchez gem. “B.O.H.I.C.A” was an old, old song that I remember I saw Abattoir play back in the day. It was like a legendary song around the clubs of LA back in the day. I think they just wanted to record it for the hell of it and I guess the label decided to put it on the record. It is a total joke song, but it’s cool. Some great lyrics by Mel Sanchez once again. It is all about his love of a certain kind of sexual activity. A kinda taboo sexual practice. Something very naughty. But it is funny as shit though! Pun intended!
„Holy Trials” displays variety and a little change in pace in the album starting off with a very melodic acoustic beginning, it then picks the pace up again and breaks into thrash and „Parricide” is another great song that starts off with Gonzales and Garcia trading off riffs which creates a very cool sound as the riffs transfer from the left stereo to the right, how do you explain this?I like “Holy Trials” especially Albert’s lead. “Parracide” is a great song, I really like the riff. Mel’s distorted bass sound is really cool too. The leads in the beginning, well that was Albert again, I remember he figured out how to make that interchangeable riff/lead thing where they trade off in the intro. That sounded really cool live too. Casey, the engineer extended that part in the intro, it used to be shorter but he cut and spliced it and made it sound more groovy and shit. Altogether a great song.
Is „Annihilation of civilization” a prime choice of thrash mayhem and craftsmanship? Is it vicious, piledriving thrash, with tons of energy and originality, a very worth purchase?I think that if you want to hear what real thrash metal sounded like back in the day, and you want to experience some killer Los Angeles style hard core fucking aggression, than yes, definitely get this record. It is a great example of what a group of pissed off metal heads can come up with. I think that you will not be disappointed!
Would you say, that this album shows what thrash is all about, crushing riffs played lightning fast with vocals that are of a sort of shouted snarl and Phil Flores’ vocals on this album are thrash perfect; aggressive, fast, but still clean enough to understand?
Yeah I like that the vocals are clear and understandable. The riffs are harsh and aggressive. The drumming is insane, monster, and over the top. Over all it’s a metal masterpiece! Buy It!
Great, pure thrash metal is what „Annihilation Of Civilization” delivers in a splendid way, right?Yes dude! Thrash metal at its best! Late 80’s angry hard core thrash metal!!!!
What do you think about, that released at the waning end of the thrash movement, „Annihilation Of Civilization” suffered from lack of promotion and no American record deal? How did it happen?Well like I said, it came out way too late, there was absolutely no promotion. They played a lot of shows before and after that, but none of it was directly from the record company. As I remember it was a label called SPV or Steamhammer. One of them was the European label and they were starting an American branch. Anyways one of the first bands they signed in America was Evildead. I guess the money fell thru or someone got fired, or I don’t what the fuck happened but the American label just basically disintegrated. So here is Evildead with a whole album recorded and no label to put it out. I think at one point Road Runner wanted to just buy the already finished record and put it out, which would have been killer but the European label just sat on it forever. When they finally pulled their heads out of their asses and released it, it was kinda late. So that is the bad luck they experienced. It was frustrating and I think it led to everyone getting into arguments and shit, which eventually led to them quitting and leaving. Anyway, it’s a shame but at least we have this record to appreciate.
Were maybe from a band trying to get a product out a little too quick?
Absolutely not! They were more than ready to put out that record! I mean, like I said, the record should have come out in 1988, then they should have out the second record in 1989 and so on, and so on. They could have been huge! But it happened the way it did.
Can you tell us more about the shows that were in support of this awesome record? How did they go?Well it was really cool when they would play the songs live. “Parracide” always got a good reaction. “Gone Shootin” was always great too. I remember people really liking the new stuff, even if they hadn’t heard the record yet. They used to play some of the stuff that they never got to record like “Greenhouse” which was written BEFORE Testament wrote their song by the same name! Anyway, they never got to play together in Europe or Mexico where I am sure they would have just killed. I know Juan finally took the band to Europe for a some shows but him and Phil were the only original members at the point. I keep bugging the shit out of Rob to do a reunion. Hopefully it will happen. Since they are doing this Abattoir thing, it’s basically the same band, so lets keep our fingers crossed! Maybe everyone in Europe will finally get to see Evildead the right way! Even if it is 20 years later!!
Anyway, thanks for the interview! It was fun! Long! But fun. Anyways I am scanning some pictures too, I will send them to you, just some stuff from back in the day. If you have any more questions or need to know anything else, just let me know! Good bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken Wakefield - Overthrow

The Canadian thrash scene of the '80s was simply great. A lot of thrash bands popped up and tried to make a name for themselves, such as Voivod, Razor, Exciter, D. B. C., Witchkiller etc. In my opinion Toronto was the center of the Canadian thrash scene. A very big shame that the Canadian bands were mainly overlooked and they never got that acknowledge that they would have deserved. Ken Wakefield speaks about those times including his bands Dark Legion and Overthrow.

Ken, do you still remember how did you get involved in the metal scene and what made you to be a metal fan? How did you get in touch with that music style at all?For me it started in high school, and had alot to do with who I was hanging out with all the time. I liked wearing long hair, leather jackets, tight jeans - and the others that were also doing this were the people I spent the most time with (especially during after school 'events'). Also, my Dad bought me a Judas Priest cassette one day "Defenders of the Faith", and the sound on that album changed me forever!
What were your early faves that have had the biggest effect on you?AC DC! Black Sabbath! Iron Maiden! Judas Priest! Led Zeppelin! Those were my first faves. Then it progressed into heavier stuff such as Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, Death Angel, etc. later on.
Were you into small, brutal, underground outfits or rather into bigger, established ones? As you can see in my answer above, it was the big established powerhouse bands that influenced me most. For me the smaller bands (like the ones I played in) were just working hard at trying to be like the big ones. To me there was a big difference between each 'class' of band. (not to take away from the smaller ones' talents of course!)
At which point did you start playing guitar and how did your choice fall on this instrument? Were you self taught or…?I was given a small acoustic guitar at a young age (about 12 years I think) and immediately I bought an electric pickup for it. I plugged it into my Dad's cassette deck on his stereo, pressed Play and Record and Pause, and started playing along with AC DC songs. The good and bad thing about that first guitar was that the action was way high and very difficult to press down on the strings - and I played that way for months before getting my first actual real electric guitar. This made playing the real electric much easier and fun.
What were your influences to become a musician?My parents had me take piano lessons as a child and my Grandfather was musically talented (he played all sorts of instruments, most often the harmonica). My mother played some piano and my father isn't musical but he's into drawing/painting. I guess those were my early influences. Then I started listening to good guitar based music that my Dad played during 2 hour car trips to the family cottage. I started loving the electric guitar sound at a young age.
Do you agree with, that just like Heavy Metal itself, Toronto has gone through many different phases, starting as far back as the early to mid 70’s? Yes, I think musicians in Toronto always kept a close eye (or should I say ear) on what was going on in the world of rock and metal over those years. We are known to be open and curious about what's going on around us in the world. As different phases happened all over the world, so they also happened in Toronto. I am confident to say that Toronto was never isolated from the whole heavy metal movement at any time.
Were the Beatles, Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin that were the reason for being a big influence on the thousands of Heavy Metal bands to come worldwide, Toronto and the rest of Canada felt something really big about to happen?Yes, like I mentioned earlier in the interview, these huge bands had an extraordinary influence on all of us Heavy Metal fans and musicians. They were larger than life itself to me. They expressed an energy and excitement that really touched the nerve of the whole scene, worldwide.
In the early 80’s the growth of Metal in Toronto exploded with Hard Rock bands gaining mass popularity, not just city wide but across the world, correct? Well, I think that Metal bands from Toronto were more likely to play in Canada and the US mostly although there were a few that received good attention and popularity over seas (Anvil for example). I don't know too many details about how many Toronto area Metal bands were doing well overseas.
Not long after that the NWOBHM ( New wave of british heavy metal) which had already taken the U.K. and other parts of Europe by storm, also followed that same path, but was more underground than that of the Hard Rock/ Metal, what do you recall of that period? Were you aware of the existence of the NWOBHM scene, that started at the late ’70s?I was aware of it yes, but at that time didn't know what it was called...I was born in 1969, so I can't say I was part of that whole era - although I was alive! The most exposure to NWOBHM that I had was thanks to Metallica's cover songs of Diamond Head, etc. That gave me a good lesson and was able to look back from there.
Did the NWOBHM gain most of its success through word of mouth in Toronto? Did you deeply get involved in the underground scene?
Unfortunately, I was not part of that scene. I was too young at the time, and came of age after the big NWOBHM period.
Bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Def Leppard, Saxon, Angel Witch, Motörhead, Raven and Diamond Head were slowly gaining worldwide success, correct? Would you name them the most influential metal bands?Yes, many of those bands were major personal influences. I think they did great work in opening up an excellent Metal scene for the 80's and 90's! My hat's off to them and others like them.
Do you think, that for Toronto, the 80's were the best of times for the Hard Rock scene as tons of clubs for local Hard Rock/ Metal acts opened all over the city, such as The Gasworks, Rock and Roll Heaven, Entex, Nags Head North, Nags Head West, that were just some of the clubs which hundreds of live bands would play every week?Indeed they were! It's cool how you know so much about the scene in Toronto! I am happy to say that I participated in many many shows at these clubs during the 80's, however for me these were not really true Metal acts, but more what I used to call 'Hair Metal' acts. Guys with big hair, dressed like slutty girls, makeup, the whole bit! My friends and I would go to some of these shows but would usually end up making fun of these guys! We'd call them 'Posers', which means they were just acting like someone else and really only looking for popularity and to get laid. For us, there was a big difference between the 'Posers' and the true Metal Heads.
Does it mean, that in Toronto started a big underground buzz and in the city was a healthy and big metal scene, that seemed to be supportive of metal?
Yes, the underground scene for me was much more interesting than the popular acts mentioned in the previous question. These were played in smaller, lesser known clubs like The Sibony, Larry's Hideaway, The Appocalypse Club, etc. These clubs were where the real, true metal bands played (including of course Dark Legion and Overthrow). There also were (and still are) great underground scenes in cities just outside of Toronto such as Whitby and Oshawa among others...that were and are still faithful to the true metal / hard rocks acts and shun the lame 'poser' acts that come out (pun intended) now and again. A good example of this is my brother's band Daedalus Project.
Local acts like Lee Aaron, Killer Dwarfs, Helix, Kick Axe, Max Webster, April Wine, Triumph, Forgotten Rebels are just some of the bands that would fill these clubs every weekend for fans to enjoy, were you into these outfits? How did they sound like at all?I did catch some of these acts at bars like Gasworks and Rock & Roll Heaven (Lee Aaron, Killer Dwarves, etc) however again, these were the 'Poser' type bands I mentioned above. I would much rather have seen Max Webster, April Wine and Triumph!!!! The last three enter into the Super Group category for me -the True Rockers - and I never once got to see any of them live.
What about your early musical footsteps and experiences as musician? Can you tell us more about it?
I had great times preparing, getting into bands, rehearsing and playing live. They were the best times of my life and I feel privileged to have been part of that scene.Of course, at my level of playing, I was in bands that had to practice in basements, move our own equipment for shows, etc. It was hard work, but it was always worth it!
How do you view, that the early/mid 80’s to early 90’s saw a change in the way Metal sounded, as the Hard Rock era slowly faded Thrash/Speed Metal entered to start what was to be another big break through in the scene as Heavy Metal evolved to Thrash/Speed Metal in Toronto?Yes, I recall the switch from the bands like Triumph, April Wine and Max Webster to the bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax and Slayer. It was amazing. So many new young bands started playing in the underground clubs that were influenced by these faster, heavier bands. My personal favourite is Sacrifice. They, to me, are the best band from that scene to come out of anywhere, let alone Toronto. Sacrifice rules. Any band that sounded anywhere near as good as them I liked. They set the bar for all comparisons I made at the time, and even still to this day.
As Thrash and Speed Metal takes over in Toronto, bands like Sacrifice, Slaughter, Anvil, Razor, Exciter, and Annihilator ruled the clubs until the early to mid 90's, would you say, that they opened the doors for ton of thrash acts that started popping up later on and put Toronto on the map of the metal scene?Indeed they did - although some of these bands weren't from Toronto (Annihilator is from Vancouver on the west coast of Canada). I would have liked to have seen Sacrifice get more recognition and success than they did, but perhaps they wouldn't be the heroes they are if that were to have happened...who knows!
What about bands, such as Kraken, Aceium, Reckless, Rapid Tears or Witchkiller who came from Ontario as well?I unfortunately haven't heard of these bands. As I mentioned, I really only looked and listened to the big bands of the time - not as much into the smaller struggling bands.
During '85 the Ontario Thrash / Hardcore scene started to develop a lot with tons of new outfits appearing such as Death Militia, Massacre, Infernal Majesty, Death Adder, Guerilla Warfare, Beyond, Lethal Presence, Holocaust etc. to the point that the scene was as strong as any U.S. scene, what kind of views did you have on that? Did you have also a good friendship with the other bands?Unfortunately I didn't play enough in the scene to make strong friendships with these other bands - however I did play shows with quite a few of them at least once when in Dark Legion and Overthrow. There were also crossings at various times of members going from one band to another - such as the bassist for Death Militia playing in my first metal band before moving to DM and our bassist from Dark Legion moving to Beyond for a stretch after I started playing in Overthrow.
Was it easy to find the suitable members for a thrash band at this point? Did the talented musicians pullulate in Toronto?There were alot of great musicians and artists in Toronto (and still are) however it's not all about talent when it comes to building a good band...there has to be chemistry between the members - they have to like the same things, get along, have fun together and have respect for each other. This chemistry is probably the hardest thing to find as there is no amount of practice you can do to prepare for having the right chemistry to get along in a band. It just happens, or it doesn't - pure cooincidence and luck. I was very lucky to be part of Dark Legion and Overthrow for the time I did and was glad the chemistry was good.
Did the Toronto musicians often cross their ways? It's very reminiscent of the L. A. scene of the '80s in my opinion...Well, in Toronto it all depended on the weather and what shows people went out to see. Sometimes I would meet artists from other bands when playing shows with them, and sometimes would meet them while attending shows.
Did the aforementioned band inspire a lot of musicians to form bands and drove you to be more better and better and talented musicians?Yes, Sacrifice was my personal number one inspiration - they rocked the crowd the best of any other band I ever saw. That was what I wanted to do...it's all about making the crowd rock.
Did the underground scene reach its peak at this point?It's hard for me to say, I really am not an expert of the underground scene in Toronto - I was a fan of the popular groups mostly, the ones that really made a difference and I was also a player in bands that I wanted to try and push to be one of the popular ones! So I wasn't looking at the whole scene much at all - just the ones that stood out.
What about the fanzine/tapetrading scene? Did the thrash/speed metal have a strong background in Toronto?Yes, there were tons of tapes going around at the time - I still have a box full of them, however I really didn't spend much time or energy collecting. Again, I was mostly interested in the bands that broke out of the underground and because popular -because I knew these were the bands that deserved it.
In the mid 80’s American bands like Anthrax, Testament, Slayer, Megadeth, Exodus, Dark Angel and Metallica also enjoyed huge success as Heavy Metal evolved to where it stands today, how much effect did they have on you? Huge effect - those were really the only bands I loved listening to and trying to learn on the guitar. I was always into the big metal bands and the big sound they had. For me it was all about the power to move the crowds - and it still is.
Besides the Toronto bands, there were a lot of other Canadian ones, such as D.B.C. Voivod, Assault, Aggression, Eudoxis etc., did you keep an eye on what’s going on in other Canadian cities, such as Quebec, Vancouver etc.?Yes, to a certain point. The more successful bands in other Canadian cities would often tour and hit Toronto at some point. We also played a show or two in Montreal with Overthrow and got to check out the scene there. Vancouver was a bit far to travel to being on the other side of the country from Toronto.
When did you join Dark Legion and what was the line up of the band at this point?I joined in 1987 I think. The band was Mark Watts and Mike Rosenthal. Mark Ferria had just left the band so I suggested recruiting my old friend Colin Gerard for bass and he was an instant in. He's always been my main musical partner in crime - he is an excellent player as you may have heard on some of the Dark Legion songs that we played together.
As I as know, you joined them after the release of their demo titled „Psychosis”, did you like their stuff? Were you familiar with it at all?I really loved their stuff and was blown away that they recruited me into their band. We reworked a couple of the sogs from their demo to add in my personal style of metal playing (they were more of a punk band before I joined I think). We used some of the older riffs in brand new songs we wrote. Their riffs were killer and it was a pleasure to add some of my own to the mix. I still listen to our songs often and just love the groove and tightness of our playing together.
Did this demo help the band to make a name for themselves?I think so yes, the music and the Dark Legion logo created by Harry Tong. I have to say it was the best time of my life to be in that scene. We were rockers who were rocking out and loving every minute of it. For me that's what it's all about when in a band.
Have you ever recorded with them any materials? Have you ever performed with them live?We played live several times, my first show with them at the Silver Dollar in Toronto playing with Blind Illusion and Dyoxin. Actually it was also my first real show I ever played. I can still vividly remember it - thanks to the audio recording I have of it! I can remember I was so nervous that I kept dropping my pick! But eventually I settled in and we rocked the place. You can even hear my then girlfriend Sue Curd yelling "Ya Ken!" in the recording between songs. Heheh
How long did the band exist exactly? Why and when did the band break up?Well, I can't say exactly how long the band existed because it existed before I came in, and after I left. We broke up in 88 or 89 due to musical direction differences I think. I can't remember too much of that period, I guess because it wasn't all that great a time. I'm still sorry we didn't get to record an official album in studio together. I wish we could all get back together and go into the studio and record our songs! Maybe one day!
Did you consider them a talented band? Would they have had the opportunity to become a bigger outfit?Well, it's not always about the most talent in my opinion. Yes we had talent, however it was the timing, the riffs, the whole vibe that made us sound like we did. Some music producers may have said we lacked certain elements, but I wouldn't have cared. The band is the band as is. I wouldn't have changed anything.
Then your way led to Overthrow, but did you play in any bands inbetween? I mean, did you play in any bands before you joined Overthrow?No, I went directly to Overthrow. The guitarist Ian Mumble had heard me play by way of some mutual friends I used to hang out with in his hometown of Pickering and he found out I was no longer in Dark Legion, so he got me an audition with Overthrow.
As for Overthrow, the band was formed in January 1987 by Nick Sagias - bass/voclas, Wayne Powell – drums, Derek Rockall – guitar, Ian Mumble – Guitar, did you already know them at this point? Was Overthrow the very first band for all of them or did they already have some experiences as musicians?I don't know if Overthrow was their first band - I did not know any of them before joining Overthrow. I would guess to say Overthrow was their first well known band and maybe their best band to date. It's another example of a band that plays tight, with killer riffs, and a great vibe together. Talent is one thing, but a group of musicians playing well together is another for me. I prefer the latter, which is to say, I would rather play well as a part of a group than be a super talented one man show.
Ian Mumble played in Beyond before, correct?Yes, however I didn't know this until he told me about it last Christmas when I met with him while back in Toronto for Christmas holidays. I'm a huge Beyond fan. My friend and bass player Colin Gerard also played in Beyond after Dark Legion while I was playing with Ian in Overthrow.
They released their „Bodily Domination” demo April 1989 produced by Brian Taylor (Sacrifice, Slaughter) and although you didn’t play on it, can you tell us about this tape? It's an awesome demo (I just put it on now). I was unaware of it until I got asked to try out for the band. I listened to it alot so I could learn it and had the luxury also of Ian Mumble spending hours showing me how to play the very cool, and most complicated riffs I have ever learned. Again, for me it was always about great riffs, excellent timing and a good groove or vibe. The songs are played pretty much the same on the demo as on the album.
Was the material good enough to draw the fans attention to the band? Was this tape, through the band got in touch with Epidemic Records?Yes, this demo made a mark for the band for sure. It was well performed and a pretty good recording. For me Wayne's drumming is a key to the success of the material - I love listening to his work on the demo and the album. I got to meet up with him in Toronto las Christmas at his studio with Nick Sagias and my old Dark Legion bandmate Mark Watts, who are working together on a project called "AntiTrust Division". Wayne isn't playing anywhere near the Overthrow style in this band - it's a completely different groove.
Were there other labels interests in the band by the way?I can't comment on that - it would be Nick Sagias who would know.
Derek Rockall left the band in November 1989 and was replaced by you, why did he decide the leave the band? Were you the first choice being the new guitarist or did they perhaps audition other ones as well?Again, I don't know why Derek left although it was on amical terms because he was always around when we rehearsed and played live. He remained a part of the band even after leaving. I don't know who else was auditioned - but it would be interesting to know if it was the case, so I know who I beat out! Hahaha
Did Overthrow have some quick buzz in the Ontario thrash underground scene doing quite well at local area gigs?I think we did well at all the shows we played - thanks to the finished product it was. There was really no need to worry about trying to please the audience each time we played, because all we needed to do with play the songs as they were and it seemed to be successful. I remember having played a very small Pizza restaurant called Pizza Pinos on my birthday with Overthrow. The stage was a couple of inches high, and the place was packed right up to the stage. It was quite a cool experience playing a show like that.
When did you start writing the material for the debut record? Did you also have a big hand in the songwriting? I had no involvement in the writing of the material - it was all done before I joined. I may have assisted with some feedback during rehearsals prior to recording, but not in an organised or official way. The material was really already very good by the time I joined.
In June 1990 you entered the Morrisound Studios to cut your debut album, were you prepared to record the material?Haha, I didn't need to be! It was Ian who recorded all guitar tracks on the album. I did get to record two solos however on Infection and Within Suffering. I'm not too proud of my work but it was after all my first ever studio recording! I was nervous as hell with everyone standing around me watching me record.
How did the Morrisound come into question, as the location of the recordings? I mean, what made you to record the material in the Morrisound Studios since it seemed to be the home of the local death metal bands?I have no idea why Morrisound was chosen - perhaps because of the bands that were recorded there and the quality of their albums being the reason. It was surely a decision made between Nick Sagias and Ron Sumners of Epidemic Records.
Were you satisfied with the quality and with the sound of albums, such as „Slaughter in the vatican” (Exhorder), „Beneath the remains” (Sepultura), „Slowly we rot” (Obituary), „Altars of madness” (Morbid Angel), „Spiritual healing” (Death) etc., that were recorded at the Morrisound?Oh yeah! Some of those are classics to this day! It was a true honour to get to go work in that studio with Overthrow. We got to meet the guys from Cynic, who had us stay at their place in Miami overnight, and let us hang out at their rehearsal space while they played us some of their amazing music. We also played a show with Cynic in Miami before heading up to Tampa for the recording. It was just amazing.
What about the recording sessions of „Within suffering”?Well, we drove from Toronto to Miami with all our equipment in Wayne Powell's van - taking turns at the wheel since it's a 24 + hour drive! I can remember driving through the state of Georgia and hearing what sounded like gun shots in the morning rush hour traffic.
After a stop over in Miami to meet the guys in Cynic and playing the show with them, we drove back up to Tampa and Morrisound Studios. The studio was large, very modern and just full of a metal vibe that I can't explain. You walk the halls and see the albums you mentioned before from Death, Obituary, etc hanging on the walls. It was a Metal Head's dream. It was also very interesting to watch Scott Burns do his thing!
Before leaving Tampa, the guys from Obituary took us to Mons Venus, which was an avant garde strip club. This is where lap dancing was invented apparently. There were religious groups picketing outside the doors. We went in anyway haha, and had an amazing send off for our drive back home to Toronto.
Did you have a decent budget to record the material? Could you work with ease or were you in a hurry?I don't know what the budget was, but I'm sure it was decent as we got an entire week to record the album. I guess it would have been less stressful with more time, but I also think that the stress helps add intensity to the tracks. Again, I didn't do much work myself, I was just hanging out having a great time while the other guys worked their asses off!
Did you accomplish all of those gimmicks, that you planned for the record?
I don't know, but I sure hope so! I wasn't part of the album's planning at all so I would have to defer that question to Nick and the others.
Were you satisfied with the work of Tom Morris and Scott Burns? Did they help a lot proving the best from the material, getting out the best achievement from you? I mean, did they help you a lot to do the best you can/could at this point?I think they did a great job and I'm proud to be listed as part of the band on Within Suffering. It's an album I enjoy listening to to this day.
Were you satisfied with the work of Tom Morris and Scott Burns? Did they help a lot proving the best from the material, getting out the best achievement from you? I mean, did they help you a lot to do the best you can/could at this point?I think they did a great job and I'm proud to be listed as part of the band on Within Suffering. It's an album I enjoy listening to to this day.
Were Overthrow in the more frantic end of the thrash metal spectrum in your opinion?
Yes, I agree - it was frantic, but also very tight at the same time.
Do you agree with, that you showed so much promise on this album?Yes, I agree. I think that had the band stayed together, there may have been at least one other album, and perhaps a larger record deal for Overthrow.
What do you think about, that „Within Suffering” is reminiscent of D.B.C. with a similar style of rough and terse thrash?
I like DBC alot, however I think there is quite a difference between them and Overthrow sound wise. DBC seems a little more on the punk side and raw. DBC has a very distinctive sound, one which makes it easy to identify one of their songs after a few measures even if you've never heard that song before. That's a true mark of success music wise I think, and I hope it also applies to the Overthrow sound.
The songs are short and rapid bursts that don’t waste too much time on details, how do you explain this?Well, in that respect I can see your view on being similar to DBC...yes it is pretty 'Slam-Bash'-like. It's an angry style of music, very rebelious and upset..and as you said, Frantic.... I would explain this as being the overall state of mind at the time of the members of Overthrow. Nick's singing, Wayne's playing and Ian's riffs all seemed to have gelled into that feel.
With its rough charm this album is one of those energy blasts that one might play in the background just for the feel of it, isn’t it?Indeed. Same reason I sometimes play DBC! ;o) I guess the reason I so enjoyed playing with Overthrow is that the kind of music they played allowed a release of negative energy for a sustained period so that at the end of it, you actually feel relieved and relaxed. It was therapeutic. :o)
You released a video for „Suppression”, was it the only video you did? What about the shot of the video?Yes, we recorded that video in two parts, with a company called Pigs Say Oink productions. The first part was filming in a warehouse in Toronto, playing along with the track and the second part was filmed during our last show at the Apocalypse Club in Toronto. Then it was mixed together to create the final clip.
Was the purpose of the video to support the record worldwide? Actually that's a good question - because shortly after the video was recorded, the band split up.
How much support did you get from the label back then? How supportive were they of Overthrow?Ron Sumners of Epidemic Records and Drew Masters, were very supportive, including Overthrow on the 1990 RAW MEAT 2 compilation, financing the recording at Morrisound, distribution of the CD, etc. I think that Overthrow was perhaps Epidemic's premier act at the time - but could be wrong.
How many copies did you manage to sell back then? Did it succeed in making a name for the band?I have no idea on the numbers, but I would guess it wasn't enough to keep Nick in the band unfortunately. Nick has re-released the album on NHR records (http://www.bravewords.com/news/74269), having added the Bodily Domination Demo as well as a show we played in Montreal (although Nick believes it was our last show at the Apocalypse). I think it would have been cool to make it a DVD and include the video footage taken at the last show (footage that was included in the Suppression Video).
Were there any shows in support of the material? What do you recall of the Overthrow shows?Yes, there were a few shows and it was a blast playing them. The music was alot of fun to play live, and it was a rush to play with such amazing musicians - the tightness factor was 10+. We played in and around Toronto, Montreal Quebec, and all the way down in Miami Florida before the recording at Morrisound. All great experiences!
Why and when did Overthrow story come to an end?From what I understand, Nick got an offer to try out for the band Pestilence and decided to go for it. That was the end of Overthrow as far as I know. There were probably many other reasons, but I can't recall if I was ever in the loop about them.
Nick Sagias played in both Soulstorm and Monster Voodoo Machine after Overthrow, but what about you, Wayne Powell and Ian Mumble? Did you also continue your musical career in other outfits or…? Yes, we all continued to play as well, but not in anything as well organised or successful as Overthrow was unfortunately. I lost touch with Wayne and Ian during that time, but I started up my own project called Bitter Greens with longtime friend and bassist Colin Gerard.
Is it correct, that Nick also briefly played bass in Pestilence (Hol) replacing Martin Van Drunen, but he only lasted about a month or 2 and never recorded with them?
Yes, that's what I understand.
Have the 90’s to present showed all kinds of Canadian Metal acts with different styles dominate the decade? I think yes, the 90's was a very good decade for Canadian, but also Metal in general around the world. Even today, musically, I still live for those days - my favourite music is all from that period.
What were the reasons, of that a lot of ’80s bands, such as Death Adder, Guerilla Warfare, Beyond, Lethal Presence, Holocaust, Death Militia disbanded and vanished from sight without releasing an album? Was the scene oversaturated in your opinion?In my opinion, I think that those playing in the underground scene, were sort of 'afraid' to get a big deal because if that were to happen, they would no longer be underground, and they would no longer stand for the same principles. The underground bands were mostly all about anti-commercialism, anti-pop, etc. So if a big label were to offer them a deal, what would happen? I think in general that is why there were no big deals for the genre - it was just anti-commercial. The bands were just as happy playing shows with the small underground scene, and to hang and party with like minded musicians/fans.
Were these bands easily perceptible from each other?Yes, I think that each of these bands of the time were absolutely original and new. That was what was so great about the period. You could go and see a band play almost any day of the week, and it would be something different from what you had seen the previous time. It was a special period of time when this was happening and the Toronto scene was happy with itself I think. There was excitement, a party atmosphere and all out adventure in the scene at that time.
How do you view, that for example, acts like Slik Toxik, Sven Gali, Jack Damage and Slash Puppet reigned supreme through the early 90’s with a Hard Rock/Metal Sound as Thrash Metal masters Anvil, Annihilator, Razor and S.F.H. ruled the 80’s? How much did the scene change at this point?Those bands were just a bunch of commercial posers and hair-spray glam acts of the time. The only reason I would go to one of their shows was to get drunk and try and pick up women. The bands actually helped by getting the girls horny for us, so I guess I should tip my hat partially to them for what they did. But in no way was I ever interested in what they were doing musically. To me it was all just smoke and mirrors.
Was the rising of the grunge and pop/punk scene act upon the Toronto one? Do you agree with that the traditional metal was killed by this new form of music and the pure metal bands have given up the battle against this trend?Yes, I must agree that the grunge of the late 90's early 00's pretty much overthrew (excuse the pun) the metal/thrash scene for a while. But it didn't last long did it? It was a passing phase, albeit a successful one...however for me the true metal was always still there, but just not in the spotlight. Again, for me there is a difference between true music, and commercial music. Sometimes commercial music will be easier to see in the media because of the money invested in it, but that has nothing to do with what is good and bad music.
Did it envenom the real metal movement?
I don't think that the real metal movement was affected by this temporary fad. There will always be people who see the real-life situation with anything - including music. Those that wish to remain asleep and follow whatever is commercially being sold (on the radio for example) will continue to do so. There is nothing we can really do for those people. But don't feel bad, there are alot of them to take care of each other, hahaha.
From the mid 90’s to present more Black/Death Metal bands dominate the scene such as Blood of Christ, Cryptopsy, Kataklysm, Solus, Necronomicon while other bands to look forward to see more from in the future are Soulforge, Endorphins, Soul Of Darkness, Nitemare, Quo Vadis and Martyr all with a style of their own, how much are/were you familiar with these atcs? Are these the bands that help keep the scene going in Toronto as well as across Canada?I'm afraid I have no idea who these bands are, and I think that even if I listened to each one, I would still not care to know who they are. It is very rare to hear a band these days play in the true, clear way metal was done back in the 80s, 90s...although I do hear some very good stuff (to me) now and then. For example I really like Lamb of God, Opeth, Mastodon, and bands like them. They bring an energy to their music that I associate with the 80s and 90s scene.
For two years ago NHR Records re-released „Within suffering”, that contained the long-out-of-print album and the 1989 demo „Bodily Domination” with live songs, from where did come the idea to re-release the material and who came up the idea with? What was the goal of this release at all?It was Nick's idea and I guess the goal was to make some money. I saw Nick last Christmas and he gave me a free copy of the CD - I think it was well done although it would have been cool to have added some video clips. I'm not sure how well it's selling, or if Nick is sharing the revenue with the others who were in the band or not - I'll have to ask him one of these days. :o)
Were all of you deeply involved into the making of the album?
Everyone but me! :o) I just signed on before the recording. I think my contract said something about a fraction of a cent per album sold or something like that...something rediculously small as to not even bother asking about it.
Does this record perhaps help Overthrow getting new fans?
Yes, I think the only way to get new fans is to get them to listen to your material. And the best way to get people to listen to your material is to produce and release a good looking and sounding product. It is something special that people like to obtain and reference in their collection. I don't know if our live shows really did much to attract new fans, as we really just played our songs (although playing them much faster than on the album) and not much else to entertain (no balloons or fireworks, etc) hahah
Was it easy to re-release those materials? Who owned the rights?You'll have to ask Nick. I would imagine he has the rights because I know guitarist Ian Mumble wasn't aware of the re-release until it was released (nor was I). I don't think Ian was too happy about that as he did do alot of the writing of that album.
It was re-mastered by James Block of Rebarbative Productions (who has worked on releases by The Ravenous, Sigh, Abcess, Inquisition, Geimhre and Xasthur), were all of you satisfied with the result?
I haven't really had a chance to sit down and listen to the new remix and compare to the original...but overall it sounds good although not very different from the original. I haven't heard any of the previous material done by James Block.
Is this record for fans of Sepultura, Obituary, Death, Sacrifice, Slaughter?I think it's for fans of the speed/thrash/metal scene of the 80s and 90s, so yeah, if they like the bands you mention, I hope they like the Overthrow album! I personally am a big fan of Sepultura and Sacrifice, although not as into the other bands.
Didn’t you think about to reform the band and write a brandnew material?
I hung out with Ian Mumble during my visit to Toronto at Christmas in 2008/2009 and he told me a secret - that he had already written material for a whole second Overthrow album! Unfortunately he refused to accompany me to visit Nick and Wayne at their rehearsal studios so I guess if it were ever to happen, it would have to be a reunion of Ian and Nick before anything would happen.
What do you think about, that Sacrifice regrouped and will release a new album this year? Oh man! I can't wait for that album! I was lucky enough to have heard some of the new material when Joe Rico sent me some early solo recordings to me asking for my opinion. I can tell you, if the rest of the material is this good, Sacrifice fans WILL NOT BE DISAPOINTED!
Evil Legend Records released a Death Militia compilation titled „You Can't Kill What's Already Dead: Anthology 1985-1988”, did you listen to it?No, not yet. I'm afraid I was not a big Death Militia fan, although I did play in a band with Cory Stoll and Steve Mills before they joined DM. We jammed in my basement as well as Cory's parents basement and I remember booting around in Cory's tiny Honda Civic with all his drums filling the back of the car, and cranking the tunes! He was alot of fun to hang out with. Cory also joined me to play in the band Bachanal with writer/singer/guitarist Mike Jervis from Toronto. Mike is now working on a project called Prison of Skin. It sounds really good.
Being a long time metal fan you are, how do you view the present status of thrash metal? Do you know or like bands, such as Toxic Holocaust, Avenger Of Blood, Merciless Death, Fueled By Fire, Mantic Ritual, who didn’t do anything new, but have the goal to pay attention to the ’80s thrash bands and keep the spirit of the old school alive? I'm afraid I have never listened to these bands. :o (I think that at the time I was playing in the scene, for me it was a very personal thing. I only cared about the music I was playing, and my direct influences (Black Sabbath, Sacrifice, Slayer, Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Iron Maiden, etc). The other metal bands doing their best to climb the ladder or just to be good enough to stay playing in the scene - well they were interesting to check out now and again, but I never expected anything 'Out of this World' great, because if it were the case, I would have heard the buzz from friends!
I still believe to this day - if a band wants to be special, they need to come up with something special in their music, some sort of a formula for success. Something that will make fans fall in love with their sound, and recognise them after a couple of bars playing on a stereo. I'm talking about what my fave bands have been able to do (see list above). Once a band has that 'hook', they can write any number of songs/albums and each will be enjoyable for their fans, becuase the formula 'works'.
You are living these days in France (in Europe), at which point did you move there and what made you to move in Paris?I moved here in 2001 because of a job opportunity at IBM France. I decided at the time that I was going to focus on my job (IT industry) and earn good money to be able to build a comfortable home for a future family.
Are you still involved in the metal scene? Do you often go to shows?I still go to shows when good bands pass by Paris - such as Opeth, Dream Theatre, Slayer, Mastodon, Cynic, Iron Maiden, etc. However I do not participate in the underground metal scene in Paris as it is changed since the days when I was involved. It is also different in Europe than it is in North America - I have to say I prefer the NA scene although there are some cool things coming out of the northern european countries (Sweden, etc.).
What are the stuffs that you mostly listen to? I mean, do you prefer the old materials or the newer ones? Do you have some faves considering the present scene?
I prefer the old school metal from the 80s and 90s. It was fresh and powerful. To me, the current scene has too many musicians competitng against each other, and it seems to take the life out of it. The scene is diluted with so many bad bands that it makes me want to ignore it and just focus on the bands I have come to learn to love. Once in a while there is a new band that breaks out of the dilution with a fresh new idea that rocks, but it's rare.
Are you still in touch with former Dark Legion, Overthrow and/or Toronto underground musicians? What about the Dark Legion/Overthrow members these days?I'm still in touch with Mark Watts (guitar/vocals) and Colin Gerard (bass) but not with Mike Rosenthal (Drums) of Dark Legion. Mark now plays in a couple of bands in Toronto, including AntiTrust Division (along with ex Overthrow members Nick Sagias and Wayne Powell). I got to go hang out with the guys from ATD during my last visit to Toronto at Christmas 2008. It was great hanging with the guys again, we enjoyed our time together sharing beers and old stories. I am happy they are still playing together.
Any closing words for the readers?
Just thanks for reading and if you knew me back in the day and want to chat, look me up on Facebook/MySpace/MSN!
Thanks Leslie for the interesting questions - it was great to think back on a time that I will always treasure - the 80's/90's Toronto Metal Scene! Horns up!









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Malice - James E. Neal

Again a dream of mine came true with this interview. In my opinion, Malice were one of the most overlooked and underrated bands of the '80s. They managed to release two awesome albums titled "In the begining" and "License to kill", but them never failed to get the major success, that they would have deserved. Singer James E. Neal answered my questions.

The band's career started in Portland in 1979 and a relatively long way led to the forming of the classic line up (you on vocals, Jay Reynolds and Mick Zane on guitars, Mark Behn on bass and Cliff Carothers on drums), can you sum up the early the period of the band?
I met Mick and Mark at a party one night. We decided to get together at my place and see what might happen.
What were the previous bands, that you've played with before you formed Malice? How did they sound like? You went through some line up changes as well, right?
I had been in quite a few local bands across the US, from Texas to Florida to Oregon. Nothing ever quite came of those situations, though. The bands I sang in all played top-notch rock and roll songs, from James Gang to Judas Priest, so it was really fun for me because I loved being able to sing like Joe Walsh, Robert Plant, Rob Halford, etc. As for line up changes, once the band was formed and signed to Atlantic in Los Angeles, we stayed the same. Early on, I think Pete was playing with us, but I don't quite recall the circumstances for him leaving. I'm glad to see he's back with them - he really is a pretty good drummer.
How was the metal scene in Portland back then? Were you familiar with bands, that started their career at the same time as you?
I don't remember all that much about it. Just trying to survive and retain my own sense of rock and roll.
What were your main infuences back then?
Led Zepplin, Jimi Hendrix, The Who, etc. Anyone new who had a sound that made my head turn - Van Halen and Judas Priest, for example.
How did you get involved in the metal scene at all? I mean, at which point did you discover metal exactly?
When you think about it, Metal wasn't really invented or created - the genre sort of just metamorphed out of hard rock. I guess I had to metamorph along with it because by the time I got together with the boys in Malice down in Hollywood, it was the emerging force in the current music scene.
How did you end up becoming singer?
I had already sang in church choirs from age 7, where I was teased as being a girl because my voice was so high. It didn't bother me because I really didn't know or care what was meant by that. Later on, when I was about 12, I discovered Eric Burden and the Animals "A Girl Called Sandoz", and the Rolling Sones "Let's Spend the Night Together", and began singing along with the records. That's how I discovered what I loved to do and that I actually could do it. When Led Zepplin came out with "Dazed and Confused", all hell broke loose, and eventually the Malice adventure happened.
How do you view, that not only did Malice sound like Judas Priest by warrant of your heavy European guitar riffing but you, a practising Buddhist, sounded uncannily like Judas Priest frontman Rob Halford and guitarist Jay Reynolds was a deadringer for Judas Priest guitarist K.K. Downing?
Actually, I didn't think about stuff like that at all. I view Rob Halford as the one of the most amazing vocalist of all time - right up there with Ian Gillan, Robert Plant, and all the others. We weren't trying to be like anyone - it just kind of turned out that way.
Did Malice's insistence on wearing studded black leather only compound the comparisons?
I don't know about that. I just went along with the costume designs - it wasn't a big part of my M.O.. I just wanted to write songs and perform.
Do you think, that it was Jay Reynolds that provided the catalyst for Malice? Would you say, that the band's career has assumed a serious complexion after Jay joined the band?
I'm probably the wrong person to ask that sort of question. I have never considered the complexion of the band or who was any sort of catalyst.
Having returned to Portland from Hawaii, where he had worked with various acts, he soon forged The Ravers and when this band folded Reynolds set to work assembling Malice, the first rehearsals featuring you, Matt McCourt, Deen Castronovo, of Wild Dogs, on drums and then sixteen year old Kip Doran of Evil Genius and The Enemy on guitar, what do you recall of your early rehearsals?
Not a whole lot, really. You seem to know a whole lot more about his life than me.
Did you start writing originals right from the start or were you playing covers, mostly Judas Priest ones in the first line?
As soon as I began learning to play guitar, around 12 years old, I started writing my own songs. They were pretty lame, I imagine.
Does it mean that you were heavily influenced by the NWOBHM movement? Were you familiar with bands, that have came from England, such as Witchfinder General, Jaguar, Grim Reaper, Sweet Savage and a lof of others?
I'm not really that familar with the NWOBHM movement, although they did sign onto my myspace page as a friend. I'm looking into what they are doing now. Seems to be a new wave of metal bands from England. Maybe a resurgence of the 60's and 70's music scene. That would be cool.
You released your first demo in 1982, can you give us details regarding that material? Do you still remember how was it recorded and was it your first studio experience by the way?
I barely remember recording the demo - must mean I was actually there!
Did this demo open some doors for the band?
Seems to me that the demo was used for the first Metal Massacre ablum.
Making your initial vinyl appearance on the first Metal Blade Records „Metal Massacre" compilation album, the only band to contribute two tracks, with „Captive Of Light" and „Kick You Down", were these tracks written exclusively for this record, since they didn't make up on the demo?
Those were the first two originals we ever did together, so they ended up that way. There wasn't anything special about writing them - I think Mark and Mick wrote them initially, and we ended up doing them first.
Do you still remember how did you end up featuring on the record? Did this compilation help to draw a lot of fans attention to the band?
I guess...again, that's not one of those things I worry about, really.
Introducing bassist Mark Behn and drummer Peter Laufmann, this formation the group relocated to Los Angeles, what made you to move to L.A.? Were you aware of the great underground scene, that existed in L.A. those times?
Mick and Mark called me, and told me the situation - that there was an opportunity. I couldn't resist.
What were your views on the L.A. scene back> then? Did you start building up a realtionship with bands, such as Pandemonium, Metallica, Slayer, Shellshock, Savage Grace, Bitch etc.?
Not really - pretty much kept to myself except on stage and at parties.
Do you agree with, that the L. A. scene was divided into two parts? There were the glam/hair outfits, such as Dokken, Ratt, Mötley Crüe, Sister (later became W.A.S.P.) and the underground, mostly thrash/speed/power ones, such as Metallica, Slayer, Shellshock (Dark Angel), Armored Saint, Abattoir, Spectre, Vermin etc.?
Yeah, there was that division wasn't there? I really didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it all. Just wrote songs and performed best I could. They had their little world and I had mine. I did like Metallica and Armored Saint - we all know what happened to Metallica, but I always wondered what became of Armored Saint.
What about the club scene as a whole?
Didn't care for it a whole lot. Every once in a while, a gem would shine in the dark mess of the club scene, but it was rare.
Do you think, that the buzz on Malice now rollercoasted with the respected Dutch magazine Aardschok giving the band a cover story a mere two months after their formation?
The Asrdschok cover is one of the few things I actually have a memory of - just kidding. I didn't know anything about a "buzz" occuring. I was sort busy getting ready to go on the road in support of the album, which required most of my concentration.
The band's first gig came in November 1982 appearing at Los Angeles Troubadour Club headlining a bill with Metallica and Pandemonium as opening acts, what do you recall of that particular gig?
I remember being excited about performing at the "world-famous" Troubadour, and it did not let me down. Probably one of the more fun of any gig we did, in my estimation.
Would you say, that Malice was a highly impressive Los Angeles based Metal band noted for strenuous live work?
Well, we did work hard, and then played hard, so maybe those two "qualities" were impressive - I really didn't know what the feeling on us was. Like I said, I was too busy to worry about it.
A line-up change saw the introduction of with new drummer Cliff Carruthers, previously with Snow and Assassin and so the classic line up (for me at least) came into being, correct?
That is correct - he was a good percussionist.
In 1983 you released two demos, can you tell us more about them? Does it mean, that you constantly write newer and newer tracks?
Those two demos came about when Mark and Mick had me record the vocals for them. It seems to me that they then went to LA and got the songs hooked up with Metal Massacre. They called me and made me an "offer I couldn't refuse". The rest is pretty much history.
The quintet's ensuing Michael Wagener produced demo proved an immense tour de force and Malice soon found themselves at the centre of a record company bidding war, how much did Michael help you to develope the band's style and music? Did the demo really represent what you wanted to express with Malice?
Funny, I did not know it was Michael who produced that demo! Maybe, I just don't remember...lol. But anyway, I would imagine that Michael definitely helped form our style we were pretty raw back then. Also, when a producer comes into the picture, he or she becomes that "other" band member. Arrangements, voicings, alternate guitar, bass, drum, and vocal parts become a part of molding what the eventual package will sound and feel like. He helped us get our feet wet, so to speak, as to what sort of musical direction to take. As for the demo representing what I really wanted to express, that's a tough question - I tend to be quite eclectic, from some country and new age, to nearly every genre of rock and metal, to even some hip hop stuff. What I did with those songs represented where I was musically and creatively at that time. Music is an on-going progression of ideas and invention, so you never really know what's going to come out of the creative machine from day to day.
As I as know, in 1984 you released two demos, correct?
Probably - I think it was two of the songs we had been working on. I had been writing a lot of lyrics and the boys had some pretty snazzy riffs, so we took a chance.
Atlantic Records snapped up the band in July 1984 and the demo comprised half of Malice's first album, „In the beginning", but were there still labels, that started showing an interest in the band?
I do remember some other labels showing interest, but, yes, Atlantic gave us the best bid for the time. I always wanted to be on Atlantic, because they had so many great rock bands - Cream, Led Zepplin, etc.
At which point did you enter the studio and what about the recording sessions?
Man! - do you know how long ago that was? At this point in my life, it seems like another dimension, eons ago! I do remember entering the studio and the recording sessions, but dates - forget about it - I might end up hurting myself trying to dig those up! I do remember thoroughly enjoying recording and working out the different nuances that eventually molded each song into the entity it became. Especially, with the producer and engineers - seems to me they always had great ideas that could improve and enhance on what we had created.
Were all of the songs written and ready or did you write some new ones during the recording sessions?
As I recall, a little of both. Most of the stuff was already concocted by the time we got to the studio, but it seems to me that some new ideas came up in the studio and we mixed it up pretty good to get the final result.
What do you think about, that this album deserved a much richer fate than it ultimately received?
Well, that's kind of two-faced question, isn't it? I felt we had really great songs. Any time you put the kind of effort into something the way we did, you hope for the best. Ultimately, it came down to promotion, I guess. However, it seems there are folks in every corner of the world who have heard one or more of our songs. For me, that's all good. If one person gets enjoyment from our creative effort, then we did something right. So I guess you could say that is a "rich fate" of sorts.
The songs are all very strong heavy riff oriented, they are primarily up tempo musically, with excellent vocals and this is a superb record by a band that just didn't get the breaks they needed, although they deserved them, how do you explain this?
I don't have an explanation - seems things just worked out the way they did. You move on, as long as you have life, do what you do and make it work. I have never given up on music (I have my wife, who is my biggest fan, to thank for that) and I have plans to release some solo stuff within the next couple of years. What I'm saying is I'm not wasting time wondering, worrying about could have been, but spending time creating what could be - what will be, actually.
Do you agree with, that highlights on the record are album opener „Rockin' With You", „Air Attack", „Hellrider", „No Haven For The Raven", „The Unwanted" and the completely stellar „Godz of Thunder"?
IMHO - every song is a highlight. No song completely outshines the next. As each song was recorded or performed, it would take on a completely unique personality that would take over my mind, spirit, and body. But "No Haven" was one of my altime favorites, because the raven kept going - I guess he was tired of the crowded boat.
How do you view, that this is pure 80's L.A. Metal in about every way, from the overly glamed up look (eye liner, big hair, eccentrically 80's androgenous attire) to the cheesy song titles („Godz Of Thunder", „Squeese It Dry", „Stellar Master"), to the actual music... this just couldn't have come from any other era, or scene?
Those titles were cheesy? Guess maybe they were, a bit. At the time, they seemed catchy to me. As far as "androgenous attire", like I said before, I just went with the flow - hated the makeup thing, though.
L.A. back in '85 had no shortage on this type of music, that being a sound which blends a Hard Rock base, with more contemporary Metal riffage, and a Traditional/Power Metal approach in the vocals, and structure, in 1985 in L.A. Lizzy Borden, W.A.S.P., Mötley Crüe, Armored Saint, and a massive catalogue of others all had releases, all did great shows, and all, including Malice, made for a some what diverse, and highly competitive Metal scene, what's your views on it?
It was pretty diverse alright. You can see that in today's seemingly astronomical range of genres, just in rock alone. It was definitely competitive, which sort of pissed me off. I am from the old school of the 60,s and 70,s - the "glory days' if you will. People would just come together and write stuff and enjoy it. The 80's seemed to became an arena of metal gladiators trying to take each other out. All I wanted to do was write, record and play. Of course, there's the major part management tended to play in developing rifts among personel.
Did every band – or at least most of the bands- overshadow Malice not only in sales/fanbase, but also in longevity, and output which leaves this little piece of history („In The Beginning") quite misunderstood, and a bit under appreciated?
Definitely.
Do you agree with, that unfortunately for Malice, '85 was when the market of catchy Heavy Metal was beginning to die out, NWOBHM was dead, and in turn most bands from there were trying to cash in on the American pop market (with catchy Heavy Metal of course including Def Leppard or Judas Priest with their „Turbo" record), all the while large scenes were emerging of vastly different Metal styles, and in the end this genre basically saturated itself unto suicide?
Actually, I was glad to see that a few bands held onto their roots during a time (disco) that was quite scary, musically speaking. There was also the "formula" songs that I believe were being coerced on not only bands and performers, but the people in general through the radio.
Are, what truelly makes this album the solo work, the vocals, and the great production/mix?
I think it's a combination of our effort to put a cohesive musical entity together. The production is really nice for it's time, I think. Mick and Jay, along with Mark and Cliff all put in some serious thought and effort - which I really appreciated because it gave me so much latitude with which I could express myself freely. Vocals were fun - I got such a kick out of being able to hit all those notes.
Is „In the beginning" considered a milestone of heavy metal from the eighties?
I wouldn't know...you tell me.
How did happen, that the remaining tracks being produced by Ashley Howe? Were you happy with his work?
Yes - Ashley Howe had produced several of Uriah Heep's earlier albums, which by the way is still one of my all time favorite bands. Ken Hensley is a hell of songwriter and player. Definitely inspiring. So, I requested Ashley to be our producer for the first album, and wouldn't you know it - he showed up!
What about the shows that were in support of the record? How did the shows go as a whole?
Well, touring tends to be a bit of blur for me - near as I can remember, most shows seemed to go over well. There were a couple of shows in Europe that the audience was downright nasty, but then maybe that was the beginning of the "mosh pit" thing. Overall, I'd say the shows were pretty well received. I've gotten some fan mail of late that seems to indicate this - several of the fans expressed their appreciation for a particular show of ours that they went to, and that must of been some twenty-plus years ago!
Did a lot of fans join to the Malice camp? I mean, did it succeeded in getting new fans for the band?
Seems that way. It was nice that people were responding to our music. When you think about it, though, we didn't have the on-line presence that bands have today - we didn't even have video or CDs back then! That stuff was just beginning to emerge, so we had to rely on the publicity of our shows and the radio. I guess there was a fair number of fans enjoying our music. . If you mean the album, yes I think it did. We actually held a decent position in Rolling Stone's top album sales listing for awhile.
When did you start writing the material for the second record?
I think we already had some material in the works that never ended up on the first album. Like I said, we were always coming up with ideas where ever we were.
How many demo material did you use for it?
One or two, maybe, I don't really remember.
„Murder" was one of the demo songs, wasn't it?
I think you may be right about that.
What can you tell us about the recording sessions of the second record?
It was a bit of a blur, but was pretty cool and fun as I recall. I do remember Max Norman spending incredible amounts of time in the studio whether we were there or not - he was seriously workaholic. He spent a lot of time on details, fine-tuning each instrument and vocal track. He made me re-sing a lot of stuff, but then again, probably about half of the stuff I sang was done in one take.
Did you definitely get your things together far better on this album, losing almost all of the cheesy rocker-ish musical tendencies?
Well, I think it was just another step in musical and lyrical maturity. We were actually expanding our creative horizons, but never got to see it through. You can hear some of the things that could have been on my website, jameseneal.com. I have 6 radically different tunes there that I've written and recorded over the last 20 years.
There is „Licence to Kill", which is a very nice efficient-speed rocker and also „Chain Gang Woman", which is just vicious 80s-styled speedmetal…The driving riff assault in here is incredible, „Against the Empire" is also in a similar vein and quite good, while „Sinister Double” is a nice midpaced opener, how do you view it?
Actually, I started writing that tune in a motel room I was staying in in Hollywood with my brother, David. Chain Gang Woman was Jay's mindstorm and a lot of fun to do. Against the Empire was sort a tribute to Star Wars type ideas. I don't necessarily rate one song against the other - each one has it's own special place in my mind.
Would you say, that it can be listened to a nice combination of speed, melody, and riff work?
Yes, that song is about the obsession people seem to have with the concept of offing someone. To me, it is ridiculous for any human to preconceive another's death. Once you cross the line, I think, it will be too late. Interesting that you dubbed it a "killer" tune.
Do you agree with, that musically this record was reminiscent of „Screaming For Vengeance"-era Judas Priest?
That thought never crossed my mind until now when you mentioned it. Maybe so - I feel that Judas Priest and Malice had different styles and approaches to writing, even though there are some interesting similarities. Of course, we were pretty heavily influenced by them. In fact, I am currently adopting Priest's version of Joan Baez' "Diamonds and Rust" in my accoustic sets I have been working on.
Is this second album easily just as good as the first one „In The Beginning"?
I would like to think that our music and writing at least appeared to be maturing. I also think that License was definitely an improvement over In the Beginning.
What do you think about, that Malice was a band that got lost in the shuffle of 80's metal and you fell somewhere between the hair metal bands like Ratt & Poison and the power thrash metal bands like Testament or Flotsam and Jetsam?
I personally did not group Malice with any of the bands you mentioned above. But I guess we did have a bit of just about everything that was going on mixed in with our music and image. It was pretty hard to establish a unique identity back then.
You guys knew how to write music, the vocals are fantastic and often can reach Rob Halford like levels, the guitar work of Jay Renolds andMick Zane layer each song with a distinct personality, and are immediately catchy and the rhythm section was awesome too, how do you comment it?
Well, I don't really like comment on things like "fantastic" and "awesome", even thought it was fantastic and awesome that we had the opportunity to do what we did. I certainly enjoyed my time spent with the guys and consider everything that happened as a fantastic learning experience and awesome event in my life.
Do you consider this bone-crunching metal at it's finest? Is the band tight and the twin guitars are superb?
Yes, those guys were quite good when they knuckled down and kicked ass. Made me tend to go over the top at times.
The production is very good and there isn't a bad track here at all, do you think, that producer Max Norman did a good job behind the mixing pult/desk? Were all of you satisfied with his work?
I think so. All in all we were pretty happy with the final outcome. We just wanted to get out and play mostly.
Guests in the studio included Megadeth men Dave Mustaine and Dave Ellefson and Black 'n' Blue's Tommy Thayer and Jaime St. James, how did they end up doing some back vocals on the record?
I wasn't involved with most of that. It happened and I said ok.
Despite making headway with a strong record, a European tour supporting thrashers Slayer proved to be a disastrous mismatch with the headliner's fans hostility showing itself openly with spitting and verbal abuse, whose idea was to tour with Slayer at all? Didn't you have the opportunity to tour with a band, that had the same style and approach as you?
I didn't think so. We didn't seem to have a lot of say in those things back then. We would get the word that a show or tour was on, and away we went. I usually found out who we were playing with when we got there.
Was it your first European touring experience by the way? How did the Slayer crowd welcome the band?
I loved the European audience. They were much more into our music then Americans seemed to be. Same thing happened to Jimi Hendrix, come to think of it.
Did it succeed in reaching some succees with the tour? Was it a successful tour for you or…?
Depends on what you mean by "success". The fact that we did a tour and survived was "success" enough for me.
How were the Slayer guys with you?
Don't remember. They partied a lot, I guess.
Malice folded in late 1987, Jay Reynolds was very briefly to flirt with Megadeth although the friend he entrusted this confidential information to and tutored Reynolds on Megadeth riffs, Jeff Young, put his own name forward and landed the coveted position, but what happened with the rest of the band? Did you remain in touch with each other?
Yes, we are vaguely in touch - myspace and such.
Malice did an EP in 1989 titled „Crazy in the night", respectively the band appears as themselves in the 1988 movie „Viceversa", playing a live concert, can you tell us more about it? Did you follow the band's career after you quit?
Not really. We obviously had our differences of opinion and went our separate ways.
Did you get out of the music business or did you keep an eye on what's going on in the underground?
I keep an eye on things from time to time. But I am also busy redefining my musical existance. Right now it is in an accoustic stage.
Do you consider yourself metaller these days as well and is metal in your vein forever?
I still get a kick out of some metal these days. Even have a few ideas in the works.
What do you think about the band's reformation? Have you ever visited their website or their Myspace one?
I've seen what they are doing and wish them the best of luck.
Are you in touch with 'em these days?
Not much.
Wounded Bird Records released both Malice records respectively this year was released a compilation album titled „Rare and unreleased", how deeply were you involved into the making of these records?
None at all.
Are the re-releases good opportunities to draw more fans attention to the band?
Remains to be seen.
What were your best and worst memories with Malice? How would you sum up the band's career? Would you something change on it?
Those questions probably would require and autobiography on my part. Best memories were in the studio and on stage. Worst - you don't want to know.
James, thanks a lot for the interview, anything what I forgot to mention or to cover?
Yes, what I'm doing now and my plans for the future. But later.